Wireality - New identity for Romanian National Television

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New identity for Romanian National Television
Started by Morten Lund, BullGuard on 11 Jun 2004

I dont get this.
The Romainian TV has choosen a "1980 east european retro design" - and then made by a UK Company. Strange..

respectfully / morten lund
CELL: +45 2844 5007
SKYPE: mortenlund
sent via Oddpost.com

-----Original Message from Marius Ursache <email protected>-----

The Romanian National Television (www.tvr.ro) has launched the new identity
developed by English & Pockett UK (www.englishpockett.com).

First impression - the small logo in the corner of the TV screen looks bad,
and it definitely needs some more work IMO.

Regards,

Marius Ursache
Chief Creative Officer
GRAPEFRUIT DESIGN
www.grapefruitdesign.com

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Read opinions posted by:

	Marius Ursache 11 Jun 2004
	Bogdana Butnar 12 Jun 2004
	Rux 13 Jun 2004
	Bogdan F Iliescu 13 Jun 2004
	Alexandru Ionita 13 Jun 2004
	Richard Nita 13 Jun 2004
	Andrei Leru 14 Jun 2004
	Eugen Erhan 14 Jun 2004
	Marius Ursache 14 Jun 2004
	Tudor M. Vedeanu 14 Jun 2004

New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Marius Ursache on 11 Jun 2004

The Romanian National Television (www.tvr.ro) has launched the new identity
developed by English & Pockett UK (www.englishpockett.com).

First impression - the small logo in the corner of the TV screen looks bad,
and it definitely needs some more work IMO.

Regards,

Marius Ursache
Chief Creative Officer
GRAPEFRUIT DESIGN
www.grapefruitdesign.com

New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Bogdana Butnar on 12 Jun 2004

Those who are in the know, can you help with some insight on why they chose
to co-brand both channels? Before this effort , Romania 2 was theoretically
differently positioned than Romania 1 and because of the programming and the
different logo, it could almost function like an independent entity. Now it
appears to be the orange smaller brother.

I have to agree on the lettering; especially in the transparent top corner
version they use, the edges tend to fade out somehow and the letters become
really thin and mismatch the sweeping lines of the much thicker ribbon.

This rebranding also brings to mind one other concern I had on the whole
process: is reabranding becoming a trend, a fad? I mean TVR has not changed
much of its programming or anchors or anything. so really the rebrand is
more of a face lift of the logo? Are we doing rebradings just for the sake
of it?

Bogdana

----- Original Message -----
From: "Morten Lund, BullGuard" <email protected>
To: "List: Wireality" <email protected>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [WIREALITY] New identity for Romanian National Television

> I dont get this.
> The Romainian TV has choosen a "1980 east european retro design" - and
then made by a UK Company. Strange..
>
>
> respectfully / morten lund
> CELL: +45 2844 5007
> SKYPE: mortenlund
> sent via Oddpost.com
>
>
> -----Original Message from Marius Ursache <email protected>-----
>
> The Romanian National Television (www.tvr.ro) has launched the new

> developed by English & Pockett UK (www.englishpockett.com).
>
> First impression - the small logo in the corner of the TV screen looks
bad,
> and it definitely needs some more work IMO.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marius Ursache
> Chief Creative Officer
> GRAPEFRUIT DESIGN
> www.grapefruitdesign.com
>
>
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New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Rux on 13 Jun 2004

As far as I remember, the rebranding process started one or two years ago and was
intended to be one of the most professional projects ever done in Romania. There was
a famous local consultant involved, who organized or supported the organization of
an international tender at the highest standards.
I almost forgot this story and by watching TVR I thought they quit this project,
because there was no visible change.
As Bogdana said, it's really sad but rebranding means only a logo change, but this
it seems like a local disease.
About the logos.. I apologize for not being polite, but they look like a sad family
of homeless snails.

Ruxandra

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New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Bogdan F Iliescu on 13 Jun 2004

I must agree with all things said here. The logo itself looks like an
unfinished concept. I do not know how it looks on the TV screen but is
enough to see how it looks on the website. The "opening" of the letter
'R' in particular is completely unsatisfactory as a visual experience. It
flies in the wind. You get no sense of foundation and worst of all no sense
of direction (if you want the feeling of purposeful flying in style than
you look at British Airways). If you want to be a trust-worthy news,
education and valuable entertainment partner you have to transmit more sense

stability and solidity in my opinion. But maybe this wasn't the case at
all. So being the 'colored twists' in the body of the letter look no more
than a cheap trick.

But, on the other hand I am afraid that rebranding wasn't quite the
intention of tvr executives. I think they still imagine that the battle
on the TV market is won or lost just by the looks of the small dot in the
corner of a screen. Even if this would be the case, as I said, they are
not about to win anything with this new logo.

Another concern of mine is that they keep trying to say about
themselves "national" just by means of colors. And here there are two
fundamental problems. First of all that being national is not an exclusive
characteristic of theirs anymore (or at least not in the amount to
offer them a competitive edge, anyway). Second of all, as sad as this might
be, national colors aren't the most appealing set of colors one might
want to use in order to stand out.

But, in the spirit of Bogdana words, I think that this is a good
example of what lack of interest for branding of a management team can do to
a group of interests. In the case of tvr the need for rebranding is
mandatory as the station has a lot to change in order to re-enter the
competition as a valuable player.

yours,

-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdana Butnar [ mailto:email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:55 AM
To: List: Wireality
Subject: Re: [WIREALITY] New identity for Romanian National Television

Bogdana

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New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Alexandru Ionita on 13 Jun 2004

Hi.
I was so looking forward to this launch and i am very disappointed with the outcome.
The logo is all over the place and the new "fancy" promos can't make up for the non sense of this new id. The general look and feel makes me think of Ceausescu waking up from the dead and saying "I see something with a flag in the wind"..And flag in the wind it was...
Another proof that nothing much changed in TVR in the last 15 years...And a main chapter in the "How to spend 300 000 Euros from public money in vane" book.

Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bogdan F Iliescu" <email protected>
To: "'List: Wireality'" <email protected>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WIREALITY] New identity for Romanian National Television

> I must agree with all things said here. The logo itself looks like an
> unfinished concept. I do not know how it looks on the TV screen but is
> enough to see how it looks on the website. The "opening" of the letter
> 'R' in particular is completely unsatisfactory as a visual experience. It
> flies in the wind. You get no sense of foundation and worst of all no sense
> of direction (if you want the feeling of purposeful flying in style than
> you look at British Airways). If you want to be a trust-worthy news,
> education and valuable entertainment partner you have to transmit more sense
> of
> stability and solidity in my opinion. But maybe this wasn't the case at
> all. So being the 'colored twists' in the body of the letter look no more
> than a cheap trick.
>
> But, on the other hand I am afraid that rebranding wasn't quite the
> intention of tvr executives. I think they still imagine that the battle
> on the TV market is won or lost just by the looks of the small dot in the
> corner of a screen. Even if this would be the case, as I said, they are
> not about to win anything with this new logo.
>
> Another concern of mine is that they keep trying to say about
> themselves "national" just by means of colors. And here there are two
> fundamental problems. First of all that being national is not an exclusive
> characteristic of theirs anymore (or at least not in the amount to
> offer them a competitive edge, anyway). Second of all, as sad as this might
> be, national colors aren't the most appealing set of colors one might
> want to use in order to stand out.
>
> But, in the spirit of Bogdana words, I think that this is a good
> example of what lack of interest for branding of a management team can do to
> a group of interests. In the case of tvr the need for rebranding is
> mandatory as the station has a lot to change in order to re-enter the
> competition as a valuable player.
>
>
> yours,
> Bogdan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bogdana Butnar [ mailto:email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:55 AM
> To: List: Wireality
> Subject: Re: [WIREALITY] New identity for Romanian National Television
>
> Those who are in the know, can you help with some insight on why they chose
> to co-brand both channels? Before this effort , Romania 2 was theoretically
> differently positioned than Romania 1 and because of the programming and the
> different logo, it could almost function like an independent entity. Now it
> appears to be the orange smaller brother.
>
> I have to agree on the lettering; especially in the transparent top corner
> version they use, the edges tend to fade out somehow and the letters become
> really thin and mismatch the sweeping lines of the much thicker ribbon.
>
> This rebranding also brings to mind one other concern I had on the whole
> process: is reabranding becoming a trend, a fad? I mean TVR has not changed
> much of its programming or anchors or anything. so really the rebrand is
> more of a face lift of the logo? Are we doing rebradings just for the sake
> of it?
>
> Bogdana
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morten Lund, BullGuard" <email protected>
> To: "List: Wireality" <email protected>
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 8:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [WIREALITY] New identity for Romanian National Television
>
>
>
> I dont get this.
>
> The Romainian TV has choosen a "1980 east european retro design" - and
> then made by a UK Company. Strange..
>
>
>
>
>
> respectfully / morten lund
>
> CELL: +45 2844 5007
>
> SKYPE: mortenlund
>
> sent via Oddpost.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message from Marius Ursache <email protected>-----
>
>
>
> The Romanian National Television (www.tvr.ro) has launched the new
> identity
>
> developed by English & Pockett UK (www.englishpockett.com).
>
>
>
> First impression - the small logo in the corner of the TV screen looks
> bad,
>
> and it definitely needs some more work IMO.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Marius Ursache
>
> Chief Creative Officer
>
> GRAPEFRUIT DESIGN
>
> www.grapefruitdesign.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe, log in to Wireality.com at:
> http://www.wireality.com/wire/login.wire
>
> then click on 'Other preferences' to suspend receiving emails or leave
> Wireality.
>
> Alternatively, e-mail: email protected
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: email protected
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe, log in to Wireality.com at:
> http://www.wireality.com/wire/login.wire
>
> then click on 'Other preferences' to suspend receiving emails or leave
> Wireality.
>
> Alternatively, e-mail: email protected
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: email protected
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Wireality.
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>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Richard Nita on 13 Jun 2004

> About the logos.. I apologize for not being polite, but they look like a
sad family
> of homeless snails.

... Yes, indeed, looks like a bunch of poor snails ... and one of them is a
little bit yellow - maybe some nasty disease attacks the TVR ?!

People, maybe we are talking here without some essential details, maybe we
don't know the entire story behind this so-claimed "rebranding" ... In this
case, we can pleasantly ask the guys from Brandient (as I know they were the
consultants in this rebranding process) to give us some food for mind and
some good, healthy subjects to discuss.

;)
---------------------------------------------------------
Richard Nita, creative director
tel: +40.21.7605706
mobile: +40.740.216889
www.theadgency.ro
www.jobsessive.com

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New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Andrei Leru on 14 Jun 2004

The new logos doesn't tell me anything about National or Romanian. Looks like a fashion channel to me :)

" Another proof that nothing much changed in TVR in the last 15 years..."

That's so true unfortunatelly. And.. who can tell for sure the rebranding was made by English & Pockett ? As they didn't change anything in their program list, the rebranding means only logo changed ? + the tv graphics are 90% copy/paste from some old graphics of realitatea tv.

"And a main chapter in the "How to spend 300 000 Euros from public money in vane" book. "

But they have alot of $$ to spent on anything they want, and the old dinosaurs are still on the case (the average employees age has changed recently from 57 to 41)

New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Eugen Erhan on 14 Jun 2004

Unfortunatelly, aside from the obvious lack of concept and poor semantic
quality, I think there are technical faults that need to be pointed out.

It's simply _not_a_tv_logo.
Imho, 50% of it's graphic quality is given by the subtleties of gradients
and shadows. If one were to 'flatten' it to grayscale, or worse, black/white
(2-bit), it will look ...well, like a 'homeless snail' indeed :)

It is also difficult to decypher at small scale.
For this reason, the TVR guys scaled it up -biiiig in the top-right corner.
The kerning isn't too sweet either.

While such a combination of soft gradients and shadows may work well for the
logo of a website, for instance, i think it is counterproductive for an
institution as complex as the national television.

just my 2b. (bani:))

Best regards,

(btw, i'm not against gradients and shadows/effects in logos. But they
cannot be an indispensible part, the logo still needs to be able to look
decent without them).

New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Marius Ursache on 14 Jun 2004

Well, let's not forget that a visual change, be it a visual revitalization
and not a rebranding/repositioning process, is still a very useful catalyst
for change.

Marius Ursache
Chief Creative Officer
GRAPEFRUIT DESIGN

> " Another proof that nothing much changed in TVR in the last
> 15 years..."

New identity for Romanian National Television
Posted by Tudor M. Vedeanu on 14 Jun 2004

Let me be the first one here with a slightly different opinion about this
subject. I think we're missing several points when trying to judge TVR's
re-branding process. I too was a little bit disappointed about the new
logos but then I tried to understand the things from a broader
perspective. In the last 15 years Romanian public television never had a
unitary identity. They changed the station IDs, logos and promo spots
several times but each time they did it in a rather amateurish way. There
was almost no visible brand strategy. It looked like each department in
the TVR had it's own way of making the promo spots (for example) like they
didn't belong to the same institution. There was a "TVR brand" but without
a strong ID.

The current re-branding is a huge step forward (I am pretty sure it's the
first time the Romanian public television has an identity created by
professionals). We're only witnessing the beginning of the process and I
do hope it will continue. The new logos aren't spectacular, but they
convey a feeling of "motion" (together with the promo spots) which is
appropriate for a company wanting to rise and move on. I like the usage of
colors, red, yellow and blue for the company logo and different colors for
each channel (blue for TVR1, red/yellow for TVR2, green for TVR Cultural).
Let's face it, Romanians are a little bit of nationalistic people
therefore it's obvious to choose the national colors for conveying the
feeling of a "national television" (TVR it's the only channel with true
national coverage - 99% ), besides that I'm sure the RYB colors choice
was also a political decision and I don't think it was questioned at any
moment. But I like the fact that the station logos do not carry the
too-obvious national flag (like they did before).

Comparing to the other Romanian televisions I think the TVR logos are
better. I'm not very happy with the way they look on the screen as station
IDs (in the top corner) but I think this is mostly a technical problem
regarding the way they mix the logos with the image (Romanian station
Antena 1 is doing the best job in this matter). On www.tvr.ro I saw the
logos for TVR1 and TVR2 without having the "R" replaced by the "ribbon" -
maybe it's better to use them like that also for the station IDs.

The station promos are beginning to look consistent, there is still a lot
of work to be done, but I hope they'll continue the work. I don't like
the way they put TVR 1 logo in perspective in the promos (unlike TVR2),
they probably did it like that in order to fit with the moving images.

My conclusion: it's a positive identity change. The big question is: are
they determined enough to move forward and make THE change in mentality,
staff, programming and so on? I live in Romania therefore I don't expect
to see miracles :-) but who knows...

Tudor M. Vedeanu